Why I hate crossovers

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 01/25/2018 at 15:20 • Filed to: stuff i write instead of working

1

52

Pictured: not the kind of crossover I’m talking about.

I’ve been binge-watching Netflix, since that’s what you do when you’re sick. I happened upon and went through all the episodes of Daredevil. I enjoyed it. It was a darker, grittier kind of superhero series with real character development that focused on Matt Murdock and those around him and the issues one would face trying to live such a schizophrenic life. I even liked how they introduced The Punisher. I went and watched that spinoff (one season), and I liked how it dealt with pain from loss, the real struggle of ex-combat veterans, building relationships.

Now here comes the hard part. I see that Netflix has a crossover called The Defenders, and I am skeptical. Comic book makers love super hero crossovers, but I hate them because:

They cram several superheroes into the same universe, or even same city. They dilute the very idea that superheroes are exceptional and have a unique struggle trying to relate to the world around them and find their place in it. The X-men series is the most obviously egregious in this respect. Not only are the main characters not unique, people with super powers are commonplace such that you have a significant segment of the population with them. Less so, but still odious, are things like the Avengers, where super powers are everywhere, and all the superheroes are surrounded by their own kind. The viewer becomes inured to it all.

The stories are as shallow as a puddle after a Las Vegas rain shower. There is no time for real character development because we have to make sure that every super hero has time to showcase his or her super power. And fight scenes, we have to have lots of those. In the end, all those “exceptional” people’s stories get cast aside, and everybody appears two-dimentional. Captain America: Civil War was a prime example of this. Just look at how Perter Parker’s story (a tortured and tragic life for a kid) got completely washed away, and he became a glib, clueless teenager.

The storytelling is usually really lazy and formulaic. It becomes mostly fight scenes against a super-baddy, strung together with our heroes licking their wounds and maybe a few intra-squad squabbles between super egos.

Now, we all know that comic book writers are historically lazy storytellers, and crossovers are an easy and lucrative way to get more mileage out of their characters. Marvel, DC, they all do it. What I would like to see is each hero live in his or her own universe, where he has to deal with the isolation, and his relationship to society. Why do we have to have this BS where every character’s story has to eventually intersect with every other’s plot line? I just read about this new hero Jessica Jones. Sounded interesting, but apparently, she went to high school with Peter Parker. Why? I’ll tell you why, so they can do easy crossovers.

Anyway, that’s my rant for today. What’s your favorite super hero character?

Picture of a Genesis that appears often in Daredevil for your time.

Nibby > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:20

0

images got KINJA’D

Chariotoflove > Nibby 01/25/2018 at 15:21

0

Saw that the second I posted. Fixed now.

Nibby > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:22

0

ah, a jag!

Chariotoflove > Nibby 01/25/2018 at 15:23

0

Go big or stay at home.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:26

0

I have one more episode left in daredevil but I actually like crossovers. It’s cool to me to see how everything intertwines. Like Guardians of the Galaxy and Iron Man! That’s amazing to think about!

Chariotoflove > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 01/25/2018 at 15:31

0

I understand your point of view, but I am especially dreading Iron Man and the Guardians.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:31

0

I’ve been enjoying how well done all of the Netflix Marvel shows are. It makes sense that they exist in the same universe and its kind of cool how they rope in the support characters who are just normal people. It continues the theme that you do not need superpowers and an alter ego to be a hero. Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Daredevil, and the Punisher have all been great. I started the Defenders but I have no idea who the fourth guy is so I need to watch his show first ideally before continuing. Its not so much a crossover since all of the shows on there are crossovers anyways in some ways. Anyways, my point is that it is very well done in a TV show format but I agree 100% that it is terrible in movies. Since they then have no time to build characters and develop a proper story.

Also note, I know nothing about the comic books and am not really into the movies at all. Just been watching the Netflix shows and it has interested me in the Marvel universe a bit. My favorite “superhero” is definitely Jack Bauer from the 24 series. Just badass as shit. Or Michael from Burn Notice, I loved that show so I will call him a hero lol.

diplodicus > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:32

2

When watching the punisher I noticed you could basically replace the actor who plays Frank Castle with a gorilla and it would be the same show. I was extremely baked when I came up with that revelation though. He really grunts a lot though.

SmugAardvark > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:34

1

To me, it makes total sense. Comic book heroes shouldn’t operate in a bubble. If you have Daredevil, The Punisher, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist, Dr. Strange, Iron Man, Spider-Man, etc. all operating within a relatively small area, it would be more unbelievable if they never interacted.

Look at it this way, world leaders are a tiny, minuscule, percentage-of-a-percentage amount of the population. Yet, many of them know each other and are forced to work with one another on global issues. It’s kind of the same with superheroes. If you have a city of about 10 million people, and only around 50 of them have superpowers, it stands to reason that they too would maintain a sort of relationship with each other.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:45

1

The defenders were actually a whole comic book series where they came together, so at least this isn’t a forced just for TV thing.

Per Wikipedia’s opening paragraph:

The Defenders is a set of fictional superhero groups with rotating membership appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics . They are usually presented as a “non-team” of individualistic “outsiders” who, in their prior adventures, are known for following their own agendas.

I recommend you watch Jessica Jones, it’s a fantastic show. The villain is probably one of the best done super hero show villain’s I’ve ever seen.

If you watch defenders, make sure you’ve seen all of the other shows first or it will make zero sense. Watch Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist.

46and2aheadofme > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:47

1

I’ve always been a Punisher fan, so for me, Daredevil was just an OK show that introduced the best onscreen Punisher yet. I love how everything is black and white, good or bad, right or wrong to the Punisher, he has no personal moral grey area. I’m analytical to a fault, so my brain only operates in greys and I envy him in a way.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Nibby 01/25/2018 at 15:49

1

I haven’t even played it, but I definitely approve of Doki Doki meme shitposting. Adds that je ne sais quoi to posts.

MonkeePuzzle > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:51

2

oh you got action heros in your action hero story from a different action hero story?

so tired of the whole super hero genre.

I realised a little while ago that all the ones I liked had a single main character. i.e. liked iron man 1, hated the rest.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 15:52

2

Yeah, I mean seriously - what is this crap?

Chariotoflove > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/25/2018 at 15:53

1

I agree that Netflix has been doing it right. Adding in the Punisher to Daredevil seemed organic and natural.

I have come to hate super powers. My favorite heroes are the ones that stretch regular human abilities. It makes them relatable and not invincible. Batman is my favorite all time super hero because of that.

The guy you don’t know is Iron Fist. I saw the trailer for that series, and I think it will be worth a watch. I’m considering putting The Defenders on hold until I can watch the other components because it seems to draw heavily on those to fill in the story.

Chariotoflove > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/25/2018 at 15:55

0

Oh yeah, I’m aware the Defenders was a comic series first. Netflix seems to be taking plenty of dramatic license in remaking these stories, which I’m okay with.

I’m considering putting The Defenders on hold until I can watch the other components because it seems to draw heavily on those to fill in the story. I think Jessica Jones looks really interesting.

Chariotoflove > SmugAardvark 01/25/2018 at 15:57

0

You are right. That’s why I would like each one to have his own story universe where he is the only super hero in existence. In my mind, then I get better stories for each without the crossover. It would stupid to have them not interact if they all existed together. They’re all in the public eye all the time.

Chariotoflove > MonkeePuzzle 01/25/2018 at 15:59

1

Exactly my sentiment. I like the ones that are more action-adventure drama than super hero flick. And yes, Iron Man 1 was great. Hated the rest.

Chariotoflove > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/25/2018 at 16:01

0

Right?!

MonkeePuzzle > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:02

1

my son and wife LOVE anything super hero. which is fortunate, so SHE can take him to see the latest marvel oceans 11 everyone gets to superhero movie.

seriously, I walked in on them watching whatever the last big one was on TV at home, and I was SO lost. I guess like 50% of the heroes became bad guys or something, there was some massive fight scene where the heros were fighting heroes.

pfft, ok, byeeeeee.

dont even get me started on how incomprehensible transformers movies are!

Chariotoflove > 46and2aheadofme 01/25/2018 at 16:04

2

Daredevil was a good way to introduce Frank, but I’m glad he got his spinoff relatively quickly. It was only then he became an interesting character in his own right. He’s flawed and an asshole in many respects, but you can understand him. The best thing I can say is he’s interesting, even during those long periods where he isn’t killing anyone.

Chariotoflove > diplodicus 01/25/2018 at 16:05

0

I thought The Punisher did a really good job with the character. The actor did a good job could have been replaced with any number of others and done as well. I think the writing was good and the direction very good.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:08

1

Yup, thats why I had to stop after an episode because it seemed to draw heavily from Daredevil and Iron Fist. I was still partway into Daredevil and had not ever looked at Fist, so it will make far more sense after that. I had seen the other two but their stories probably draw from more later on. Agreed on liking the non-powered heroes. Or at least non-invincible seeming ones. I always think thats such a cheap plot mechanism. The hero just needs to be really good at what they do not frigging invincible. Superman is always dumb to me. I did watch supergirl though and enjoyed that.

Chariotoflove > MonkeePuzzle 01/25/2018 at 16:08

1

So, my wife fills your role in our household. She can’t sit through 5 minutes of those films. I think the one you’re referencing is Captain America: Civil War, a shining turd atop the Marvel Cineverse.

The Transformers movies are absolute shit, every one of them.

diplodicus > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:11

1

Oh I thought it was good. I guess it was just the weed that made my thought extremely funny to me. If you rewatch it anytime he’s in like a fight just imagine a gorilla instead and see how it makes you feel inside.

Chariotoflove > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/25/2018 at 16:12

0

You know, Superman started out just being able to jump really far, and stuff like that. In my mind they ruined him. You know it’s gone too far when you have to invent a special substance called Kryptonite to make your super hero even a tiny bit vulnerable and interesting.

I haven’t been a Supergirl fan, but my daughter and I are following Flash.

Chariotoflove > diplodicus 01/25/2018 at 16:13

0

I’m imagining it now...yup, it works.

AestheticsInMotion > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:30

2

The Punisher was definitely my favorite, with daredevil right behind, followed by Jessica Jones. Luke cage... Loved about half of it. It did have fantastic music. Iron fist... I regret watching. My main beef is with defenders, because all of the problems could have been resolved by having someone who was willing to kill people instead of being “I live by a code” batman style superheroes. The whole time I was watching it, I just kept thinking “everything would be taken care of and none of this would be happening if one of you just had Frank Castle handle things”

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:38

1

Jessica Jones was so good my wife couldn’t even stop watching it.

It does draw on all of it. If you’re missing any piece of the puzzle it won’t make sense. Luke Cage is probably the least important backstory to understand Defenders if you’re eager to get to it. Also a great series btw, just not as important to the plot of Defenders.

SmugAardvark > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 16:38

0

That’s an interesting thought. So, would they have to do away with characters that can hop between universes?

Nibbles > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 17:19

0

Jessica Jones is genuinely good. Season 2 is coming out soon and we’re rewatching season 1 to get back in

Of course it crossovers for Luke Cage so hopefully that doesn’t [TRIGGER] ya

But David Tennant is absolutely on point

Rico > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 17:37

0

What are your thoughts on the Capt. America Winter Soldier movie?

Rico > diplodicus 01/25/2018 at 17:39

0

Haha that’s hilarious and I noticed that too. They made him more animalistic than ever.

Rico > AestheticsInMotion 01/25/2018 at 17:42

0

This is why I relate to Frank the most out of that group and Tony Stark in the larger Marvel universe. They will do what it takes to save and protect especially when dealing with those with no moral code.

Chariotoflove > AestheticsInMotion 01/25/2018 at 19:24

0

I get a bit annoyed with the “no kill” ethic, too. I respect the idea that you don’t go out and proactively kill someone because you have judged them a bad guy who deserves it. That’s what the Punisher does, and it’s that skirting of the moral line that sets him apart. However, when someone is trying to kill you, all bets should be off. After all, isn’t that why the police have guns? Why should a super hero dealing with violent criminals attacking him be subject to a higher standard than that.

In the same vein, I thought it was stupid that Batman had all those guns, but never killed anyone. Only the A-team had a worse hit ratio.

Chariotoflove > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/25/2018 at 19:25

0

Maybe I’ll go for Jessica Jones first, then.

Chariotoflove > SmugAardvark 01/25/2018 at 19:27

0

Just between each other’s universes. The idea is to get rid of the super hero team ups.

I’m hanging in with the CW’s Flash and multiple universes each having a Flash of its own because they all represent alternate realities.

Chariotoflove > Nibbles 01/25/2018 at 19:29

1

I’ll go for that, then. I’ve been okay with the Netflix series so far because they seem to at least be telling good stories. I’m not triggered yet.

Chariotoflove > Rico 01/25/2018 at 19:41

1

I thought it was starting to get into the super hero team noise because S.H.I.E.L.D., but it didn’t have the amalgam of super-powered people that I hate, just super bad-assed people surrounding Rogers. So, I enjoyed it for what it was. Also, I liked the friendship loyalty story and the chance for redemption. Plus, I like Rogers’s back story that makes him look like local boy made good instead of some cocky guy knocking heads. So, I find I can enjoy when he kicks some ass.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 20:11

0

I really liked all of them except Iron Fist. That one just felt really phoned in

Chariotoflove > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/25/2018 at 20:26

0

That’s too bad. The trailer looked good.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 21:05

0

I was really bummed, Iron Fist is one of my favorite super heroes but Hayden Christensen could have done a less wooden performance as Iron Fist

Chariotoflove > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/25/2018 at 21:09

0

Is that who it is? Well no wonder then.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Chariotoflove 01/25/2018 at 21:19

0

It’s not but it might as well be, the rest of the cast does really well though.

Chariotoflove > Carbon Fiber Sasquatch 01/25/2018 at 22:16

0

I misread. Thank goodness. I may get around to it eventually, but now I have my priority list based on these recommendations.

SmugAardvark > Chariotoflove 01/26/2018 at 10:16

0

Fair enough. I love the Marvel crossover stories, as long as the story is good. But I can see how it’s frustrating if you’re buying books every month and don’t want to risk missing anything.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Chariotoflove 01/26/2018 at 11:16

1

Let me know what you think when you get going on it. It also helps understand how all these guys operate in close range of each other.

And it’s just awesome.

Chariotoflove > SmugAardvark 01/26/2018 at 11:35

0

That’s another thing. You have to buy issues of some other series you’re not necessarily following because it might contain some important info on your character. It gets messy.

Chariotoflove > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/26/2018 at 11:35

0

Will do.

SmugAardvark > Chariotoflove 01/26/2018 at 11:46

0

Yup. I have Marvel Unlimited, so it’s not as much of a problem for me. I just have to wait a few months before I can read all the books. But there’s just so many thousands of back issues, that it hasn’t been an issue.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Chariotoflove 01/26/2018 at 15:45

0

At least supergirl and her sister are kinda hot lol. That show has way too many episodes in a single season though. I thought it was wild to be on like episode 22 in the first season

Chariotoflove > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 01/26/2018 at 16:38

1

Back in the day, a season was 26 episodes (e.g: Star Trek). Now, we’re lucky to get 13.

Yes, Supergirl is hot (and she can sing). Not hot enough for me to watch consistently. Now the Helen Slater Supergirl...